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Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/session/Session.php:48) in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/changes/ChannelFeed.php on line 95
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Warning: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/session/Session.php:48) in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/WebResponse.php on line 74 http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php?action=history&feed=atom&title=OFC_Meeting_16OFC Meeting 16 - Revision history2025-12-14T21:59:54ZRevision history for this page on the wikiMediaWiki 1.35.6 Deprecated: strlen(): Passing null to parameter #1 ($string) of type string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/rdbms/database/Database.php on line 579
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Deprecated: strlen(): Passing null to parameter #1 ($string) of type string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/rdbms/database/Database.php on line 579 http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php?title=OFC_Meeting_16&diff=992&oldid=prevJess at 19:07, 23 September 20222022-09-23T19:07:35Z<p></p>
<table class="diff diff-contentalign-left diff-editfont-monospace" data-mw="interface">
<col class="diff-marker" />
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<col class="diff-marker" />
<col class="diff-content" />
<tr class="diff-title" lang="en">
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:07, 23 September 2022</td>
</tr><tr>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 5:</td>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-lineno">Line 5:</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>=== DEMOCRACY IN THE FUTURE ===</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>=== DEMOCRACY IN THE FUTURE ===</div></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>-- '''[mailto:flyermanders@gmail.com Philip Manders]'''</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>-- '''[mailto:flyermanders@gmail.com Philip Manders]'''</div></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-deleted"></td>
<td class="diff-marker" data-marker="+"></td>
<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div></center></div></td>
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<td colspan="2" class="diff-empty diff-side-added"></td>
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<tr>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><div>----</div></td>
<td class="diff-marker"></td>
<td class="diff-context diff-side-added"><div>----</div></td>
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<tr>
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<td class="diff-context diff-side-deleted"><br /></td>
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</table>Jess Deprecated: strlen(): Passing null to parameter #1 ($string) of type string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/rdbms/database/Database.php on line 579
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<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">← Older revision</td>
<td colspan="2" style="background-color: #fff; color: #202122; text-align: center;">Revision as of 19:07, 23 September 2022</td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>'''09 Jul 2019''': </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=== DEMOCRACY IN THE FUTURE ===</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>-- '''[mailto:flyermanders@gmail.com Philip Manders]'''</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Comments from '''[mailto:jessh.brewer@gmail.com Jess]''': </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>It has been suggested that democracy might get some assistance from Artificial Intelligence. Here's an interesting article on one of the methods every AI fan should be aware of: ''Generative Adversarial Networks'' or '''[https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2019/06/12/artificial-intelligence-explained-what-are-generative-adversarial-networks-gans/?fbclid=IwAR3yj3z2czzbFb94wx3TATJmkFbUAlH_clinek7Ps0HC-y1-H62gQX94L7U#61bb6b3a7e00 GAN]'''s. I can't help but visualize an ''unintentional'' GAN being created by hackers' botnet attacks on a system protected by an AI security system... this scenario was used in some of Dan Simmons' SF novels to explain how fully conscious computers first evolved. But that's an old idea now, right? &nbsp; <tt>;-)</tt></div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Philip's Presentation:</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>===Democracy and the Future===</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Definition of ''Democracy'': a form of government in which the people can have a say, ''via'' referenda, elected representatives and/or citizen assembly. There must also be formal or informal recognition of individual human rights such as free speech and the right of people to participate in free markets in most areas (classic liberalism). </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>====Conservative and Progressive views of democratic government:====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>English political philosopher Michael Oakeshott: "''The ship of state should not have any destination''." Conservatives believe the problems (other than defence and the justice system) that the market has not solved do not exist, or are the result of the failings of individuals, and any intervention will just make it worse. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>The "progressive" view is that there are more areas of concern best addressed by government instead of by business.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>====Democratic Systems====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=====Representative Systems=====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Proportional (most common type is Mixed Member Proportional, ''e.g.'' Denmark) or Ranked (most common type is Instant Runoff, ''e.g.'' Australia) voting provide better reflection of citizen opinion, more cooperation amongst parties, less violent swings between policies, no safe seats or strategic voting. One downside is the risk of too much small party influence, especially radical parties (have threshold of 5% to prevent this in Germany). ''Wikipedia'': studies found that citizens of countries with proportional representation are more content with democracy. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=====Direct democracy=====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Is 50% + 1 enough for a referendum? Do legislatures have to respect the result as binding? Is voting again on same topic improper?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=====Challenges=====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>The idea of religious liberty a good example of the difficulty of interpreting liberalism. Can a religious organization discriminate against gay employees?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>It is human nature to sort into tribes and give one’s loyalty to a leader.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Jean-Claude Juncker, past president of the European Commission: "''We [politicians] all know what to do, we just don’t know how to get re-elected after we’ve done it.''" </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Good representatives of the people in government focus on policy, not politics and winning the next election. Good representatives are rare. The people often want what they do not need. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Voters and politicians have their thinking sidetracked by slogans, tribal affiliation, logical fallacies and misinformation.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>The ''Overton window'' are ideas that cannot be discussed in polite company. It may be good that climate denial and racism are not acceptable topics but valid ones such as population growth and immigration also cannot be discussed –- leading to populist frustration with elites. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>A populist definition of ''elites'': Those with real or imagined power (scientists, economists, politicians, bureaucrats) who that think they're better than me because I don't espouse their beliefs. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Democratic demagogues deliberately create crisis to provide room to introduce radical change and consolidate power.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>We are pushed to consume by social media and advertising. Social media keeps us in silos with its algorithms, giving us what we liked in the past. Also on Twitter orthodoxy is enforced with shaming. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Ways to discover the truth -- media, government reports, universities, scientists. Populists question all of these sources. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Atlantic Magazine article on Orwell on importance of free speech: </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>'This willing constriction of intellectual freedom will do lasting damage. It corrupts the ability to think clearly, and it undermines both culture and progress. Good art doesn’t come from wokeness, and social problems starved of debate can’t find real solutions. "''Nothing is gained by teaching a parrot a new word''," Orwell wrote in 1946. "''What is needed is the right to print what one believes to be true, without having to fear bullying or blackmail from any side.''"'</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Identity Politics -- reduces the authority of a person to race, gender ''etc.'' </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Inequality subverts democracy. The rich use their money to affect votes and politicians. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>====Future====</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Soon the nations will be forced to address inequality, climate change and other ecological crises, and the nuclear threat.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Yuval Harari on democracy and the future: </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>"''What does all that mean in practice? Well, when the next elections come along, and politicians want you to vote for them, ask these politicians four questions'': </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div># If you are elected, what actions will you take to lessen the risks of nuclear war?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div># What actions will you take to lessen the risks of climate change?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div># What actions will you take to regulate disruptive technologies such as AI and bioengineering?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div># And finally, how do you see the world of 2040? What is your worst-case scenario, and what is your vision for the best-case scenario?''"</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Can we have both "freedom to buy and sell" and "from each according to their ability, to each according to their need"?</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>To preserve our civilization we will need to move away from materialism and consumerism and respect science and be kind. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Artificial General Intelligence could make better decisions and give almost perfect predictions of human democratic decisions. Will democracy be seen as unnecessary? </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>"''And while we could spend until the end of days deploring each other’s sins, there will be no peace until we remember we are capable of so much more than that.''"</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>There is no way we can have any meaningful connection with everyone in the nation, much less the 7.7 billion people on earth, but the feeling that we have a shared humanity is very important to our future survival.</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>Large citizen assemblies (hundreds or thousands of participants), selected by lottery, and with the assistance of experts (and eventually AGI), including experts in the manipulation of human thinking, may be the way to go to create policy recommendations. These would provide informed public opinion. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>-- '''Philip'''</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>----</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>=== OTHER TOPICS ===</div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>It occurs to me that we could use the wiki page for the upcoming meeting to propose additional (hopefully related) topics for said meeting and/or initiate discussion of topics for subsequent meetings. Perhaps each such page should have an "OTHER TOPICS" section at the end, like this: </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* [https://www.negative.vote/ NEGATIVE VOTE] ('''Jess'''): Decades ago I proposed the idea of a [http://free-ideas.org/pol/NegVote.html Negative Vote] option -- in my version, each person still gets one vote in a "first past the post" election, but they can either cast their one vote '''''for''''' the candidate they like best or '''''against''''' the one they despise most. There has been quite a bit of discussion on the practical pros and cons of this idea, and a group in Taiwan has been attempting to implement it for years. It is also under consideration in [https://www.facebook.com/groups/BalancedBallotBerkeley/ Berkeley] and [https://www.negative.vote/ another team] is trying to raise money for a national drive in the USA; however, there is considerable disagreement about the details of implementation: should it be the version I originally described, or should every voter get '''''both''''' a positive vote '''''and''''' a negative one, or should it be combined with a "proportional representation" ballot in some way? I would love to dig into this topic, if anyone else is interested. And it is sort of relevant to the Future of Democracy. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>''Addendum'': in May 2020, Paul Cohen (a retired mathematician and engineer living in Maine) published ''[https://thefulcrum.us/voting/balanced-approval-voting Why should we adopt balanced voting?]'', an eloquent advocacy for the Negative Vote. </div></td>
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<td class="diff-addedline diff-side-added"><div>* Speaking of which, [https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/henry-kissinger-the-metamorphosis-ai/592771/ The Metamorphosis] by Henry A. Kissinger, Eric Schmidt &amp; Daniel Huttenlocher is a pretty vivid insight into how AI is changing everything ''right now''.</div></td>
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</table>Jess Deprecated: strlen(): Passing null to parameter #1 ($string) of type string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/rdbms/database/Database.php on line 579
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Deprecated: strlen(): Passing null to parameter #1 ($string) of type string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/rdbms/database/Database.php on line 579 http://localhost/mediawiki/index.php?title=OFC_Meeting_16&diff=982&oldid=prevJess: Created page with "OFC Meetings --> here ---- <center>"2022-09-23T18:24:16Z<p>Created page with "<a href="/mediawiki/index.php/OFC_Meetings" title="OFC Meetings">OFC Meetings</a> --> here ---- <center>"</p>
<p><b>New page</b></p><div>[[OFC Meetings]] --> here<br />
----<br />
<center></div>Jess Deprecated: str_replace(): Passing null to parameter #3 ($subject) of type array|string is deprecated in /usr/share/mediawiki/includes/libs/objectcache/MediumSpecificBagOStuff.php on line 893
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